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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 10, 2005 8:13:11 GMT -5
now if that doesnt cure the arguement as to if cheating by any means is fair or not then someone here is having an argument just for the sake of having one! Chris Well Chris - that was a good one. But now I gotta tell you. You have all missed my point here. Im probably the only one in here really fighting against cheating- Yes thats right! Why? Everyone seems to be too much occupied hunting those poor gnats but at the same time gulping down the camels. Remember that saying?? So what I probably have to do here is like on the pic if I would play snookers against you Chris.  Scandal Player |
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Post by Chris on Jun 10, 2005 8:36:39 GMT -5
ok Scandal......explain please what you mean about "Hardware" being the real problem?
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 10, 2005 9:28:22 GMT -5
ok Scandal......explain please what you mean about "Hardware" being the real problem? Ok Chris What I really mean is those programs included in some new computers that makes it possible to do fast straight shots. If you really want to know whats its all about - ask Bulten i Bo. He doesnt practise it himself - but he showed me once how it was possible in his own computer. It was obvious that cheat is possible. The other severe cheats are those already known - as two screens and double mouse shots. I dont know how to do those myself - but it seems they are around. |
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Post by Chris on Jun 10, 2005 13:45:16 GMT -5
ok Scandal......explain please what you mean about "Hardware" being the real problem? Ok Chris What I really mean is those programs included in some new computers that makes it possible to do fast straight shots. . so really its not HARDWARE but the use of additional software you are talking about...... and we have already covered that point. i may be mis-understanding you here and i will come to that point in a moment...... but as i have said....... the game was designed to be played using a "standard pointing device" and hand to eye co-ordination.... therefore ANYTHING other then those 2 basic peices of "equipment" are not what was intended to be used. i agree that people have cheated since the days of the zx 81 and commodore 64 games...... but to my recollection they were virtually all single player games and the cheats only enabled you to complete the game. couronne is a 2 player game ..... and to be played fairly BOTH opponents should only use 1 standard pointing device and "hand to eye co-ordination", this was how the game was intended and designed to be played when it was programmed. also the game is very easy to play this way, and it is then also considered a fair "match". using ANYTHING other then this is i guess considered unfair or cheating or whatever negative phrase you wish to call it. the problem arises when either through laziness or lack of skill someone trys to manipulate the odds into their favour by using some other means then i have described above to win. you say (Scandal) you too are against cheating...... so what i now do not understand is....... if you are against cheating...... and have had explained to you clearly, by numerous people in this thread, what is considered cheating in couronne, why do you appear to want to justify the methods that cheaters are/have been using? |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 10, 2005 16:56:37 GMT -5
you say (Scandal) you too are against cheating...... so what i now do not understand is....... if you are against cheating...... and have had explained to you clearly, by numerous people in this thread, what is considered cheating in couronne, why do you appear to want to justify the methods that cheaters are/have been using? I dont agree with you about numerous people in this thread have explained anything. [glow=red,2,300]Surely[/glow] you have called attention to some methods which are cheating - like some softwares. [glow=red,2,300]But[/glow]as in the Society there is almost [glow=red,2,300]no use [/glow]having rules - if you are unable controlling whether people will follow them or not. In Shockplay today its not possible to punish people who are cheating or not following the original intentions in this game. So what Im saying is - as long there is no possibility hunting the most severe crimes in here - why making such a big fuzz about Excel? Even if that also is a cheat! Im talking about the gnat and camel here.   Scandal Player |
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Post by douglas122293 on Jun 10, 2005 19:44:12 GMT -5
scandal even told me he cheated
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Post by Chris on Jun 10, 2005 23:33:15 GMT -5
ah-haa................i now understand the concept of why you are posting this thread.
correct me if i am wrong........are you saying that more should be done (on a higher level) to STOP the cheats and punish those who USE the cheats?
and douglas......... please dont make comments outside the context of the thread without firm proof......... as this is how a mature discussion can degenerate into tit-for-tat "flame war"
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 11, 2005 2:56:10 GMT -5
scandal even told me he cheated Well - What can I say? I had never heard about this guy until yesterday when he suddenly showed up in the middle of a leaguegame. He started saying something like: "I know you cheat Scandal" "Show me how you cheat Scandal" "Please tell me how you cheat" and so on So I simply answered him somthing like: "You just hit the chip" "Just cheat the chip" "If you cant hit the chip youre cheating" and so on I just wonder - If he caught me saying I was cheating, why didnt he shoot a "Print Screen" to be able to post my words here? And if I were cheating - Why have I started so bad in Eliteleague yesterday ? 0 - 4. With some double mouse / or two screen / cheating I would probably have been able achieving some more? Scandal Player |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 11, 2005 3:12:29 GMT -5
ah-haa................i now understand the concept of why you are posting this thread. correct me if i am wrong........are you saying that more should be done (on a higher level) to STOP the cheats and punish those who USE the cheats? Yes thats partly what Im trying to say. But - as long as you have no intention doing so, or as long as its not technically possible punishing cheat, I would be pleased noticing efforts towards rendering the most severe ones harmless.  Scandal Player |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 12, 2005 3:25:10 GMT -5
Scandal Player, Feel free to post your information on www.celinakyle.com if you like. I believe in a little something called "Freedom of Speech". Thx Celina - Cause my intention here wasnt spreading some cheat. I didnt even regard this method as cheating (watch my arguments above!) At this very moment I´ll wait posting the pics on your website. Otherwise I guess you could get into a severe fight against some moderators in here  I think you are brave though as you in fact are one of the moderators on this forum - as I understand it. Scandal Player |
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Post by Mike on Jun 12, 2005 15:47:00 GMT -5
ok scandal, first of all i'm not accusing you of cheating... But during our league match, you made some pretty tough straight shots 3 times ina row. And rumour says that you use a word document to shoot your straight shots (similar to the 'couronne raka' created by Hektor). Would you like to clarify that...because i don't know what to believe anymore... I haven't been here since the beginning of Shockplay's release...but i bet you it never used to be like this. All these players accusing eachother of cheating (even though some do) ..but even to those that get lucky. They come onto this site and blow all of your reputation, when that person was playing a completely legit game. Anyway, what I was trying to say is, Shockplay has all this BS political crap going on and i'm getting sick and tired of it. If people want to cheat, let them, because Rocketman is fixing this problem anyway so there's no need to worry about it... Let's stop fighting, get along, and have nice matches. The line needs to be drawn. Just out of curiosity... who else is sick of this?  |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 12, 2005 17:53:28 GMT -5
ok scandal, first of all i'm not accusing you of cheating... But during our league match, you made some pretty tough straight shots 3 times ina row. And rumour says that you use a word document to shoot your straight shots (similar to the 'couronne raka' created by Hektor). Would you like to clarify that...because i don't know what to believe anymore...( Thx for your exposition here. I really dont know though where to start. But first - Today I got a message from one of my friends in here who is also in the Elite league this week - 12th of June - 2005. My friend had just met another player in a eliteleaguegame and was very upset about what had just happened. There had been several straight shots in the game. So my friend told me the profile (or "about") had been modified by my friend. [glow=red,2,300]Look below![/glow]  I will not tell here who was involved - because I dont think its the reason why this thread started. To find out who use those shots. The reason I started this thread though was I also had experienced - several players were using those shots. [glow=red,2,300]So I wanted a general discussion about it. And hopefully in the future these things will disappear. Or let it free - as someone in here already has written.[/glow] I had also just recently (before this thread) happened to see the presentation by Hektor that you mentioned - (i think its gone now though) about "raka shots". As any normal human beeing, I guess, you start wondering how these shots are done. So I started to find out a simular way of my own. Its also easy to practise on the "Singel Player" place. As you often meat people using those straight shots - in different ways - you start wondering - why not using simular shots yourself? Personally I have so many other shots (like self learned 3 walls and so on) so I really would look forward to that day all those "software" shots are gone. Finally for now - [glow=red,2,300]I dont remember I have ever met you in a leaguegame so far[/glow]. And if I have - it must have been long ago - and far from that day I had even heard about those shots. But please look at that Profile written by my friend in the Eliteleague again - so you will see how we "average" players feel when beeing confronted with those straight shots made by the computer itself. Im not talking about any word or excel document now. |
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Post by beowolf on Jun 14, 2005 18:37:49 GMT -5
Excuse me...I havent written on this forum for quite a while - but I have played the game for more years and some of you know me; most of you dont. Like it has been said - cheating of all kinds has always been a part of this game, and that wont change. It has been discussed (or silenced) on every couronne forum on the net, and we all can agree that cheating is wrong, immature and childish. BUT..The very nature of this game makes it impossible to prove any cheat, so what is the point of playing police? What is the point of threatening people to be banned from the forums if they talk about it?. Will that keep them from cheating? Will it keep them from inform their friends via mail or PM's? Who are we protecting by forbidding and hiding information of possible cheats ? Protecting the cheaters?Basically, we have an "elite" of cheaters who freely can do their business because the ways to cheat are only known by this "elite". And we are helping them all we can by putting a lid on every conversation about it. Think about this scenario - Formula 1 - everyone knows there are more kinds of cheats used by an "elite" group of the drivers - and everyone trying to get information about it is silenced or will be excluded from the race !! AgendaSo what is it Chris and others is trying to protect here? Since I cannot believe the purpose is to protect the cheaters - whats the agenda ? Of course - maybe protecting the game itself ?? NOT talking about the flaws of the game is protecting Rocketman and his business - or is it? Chris tells us its just a matter of time - Rocketman will fix it when he get time! - or when hell freezes over! I doubt Rocketman has a genuine interest in investing more time or money in a 4 year old game. (the age really shows now). And if I were him, I couldnt care less about the cheats.. NOT fixing the possibility to cheat will keep the saga running and the interest for the forums and game alive - this thread is a living proof. Protecting the game and rocketman also means protecting the cheaters - and keeping the good players out in the wilderness at the same time. Indeed - standards are good - and doublestandards are twice as good. In Conclusion- Cheaters will cheat nomatter how much or little we talk about it.
- So lets talk openly about it, and give everyone a chance to detect who is cheating - and who to play or not.
- Create a special forum for cheaters to discuss new cheats, so we all can read about them. Gays came out of the closet as well - didnt they? (no offence intended)
- - or - just play, enjoy the game and shut up about cheating - its just a game on the internet -
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Thanks for your time.
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Post by Mike on Jun 15, 2005 15:08:44 GMT -5
Let's all cool down, and have a nice game of couronne or whatever game you would feel comfortable playing  ... www.funnyjunk.com they got some funny stuff www.jokes.com is one of my other favourites |
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Post by beowolf on Jun 16, 2005 19:28:42 GMT -5
Thank you Strux - great links When everything else fails, its nice with a good diversion. I any case, I didnt think anyone really had enough balls to address the issues I raised above. Its a lot safer endlessly to discuss - on the rethorical level - what cheating is or what isnt cheating. Its also a good diffuser to the real issues. So lets adapt to the last suggestion and shut up about cheating - and shut everyone up as well - since noone really wants any changes - at least noone who is important enough to make a difference.. |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 17, 2005 3:07:58 GMT -5
Thank you Strux - great links ..... So lets ... shut up about cheating - and shut everyone up as well - since noone really wants any changes [glow=red,2,300]Please folks [/glow]Remember what Winston Churchill once said !!! He said: [glow=red,2,300]"Humour is a serious thing"[/glow] Are we really about to bring up another serious issue here ? So here is finally a story just to show what that would be like changing the subject from cheating into chicken[glow=red,2,300]Chickens in Libraries[/glow] A chicken walks into the library.
It goes up to the circulation desk and says: "book, bok, bok, boook".
The librarian hands the chicken a book.
It tucks it under his wing and runs out.
A while later, the chicken runs back in, throws the first book into the return bin and goes back to the librarian saying: "book, bok, bok, bok, boook".
Again the librarian gives it a book, and the chicken runs out.
The librarian shakes her head.
Within a few minutes, the chicken is back, returns the book and starts all over again: "boook, book, bok bok boook".
The librarian gives him yet a third book, but this time as the chicken is running out the door, she follows it.
The chicken runs down the street, through the park and down to the riverbank.
There, sitting on a lily pad is a big, green frog.
The chicken holds up the book and shows it to the frog, saying: "Book, bok, bok, boook".
The frog blinks, and croaks: "read-it, read-it, read-it". Scandal |
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Post by SidDan on Jun 17, 2005 12:20:27 GMT -5
oh please... how can anyone bring in Formula one or Indycar into this discussion to compare about. Those car races are team sports, couronne is not. And if somone cheats in Formula 1, The punishement will be quite harsch. Just take a look at what happened with the BAR team, Button and Sato, recently which got them suspended for 2 races.
Unless you are not an old crippled bad-sighted man, then you have no excuse of using any helping aid of what so ever in Couronne...
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Post by beowolf on Jun 17, 2005 13:03:25 GMT -5
oh please... how can anyone bring in Formula one or Indycar into this discussion to compare about. Those car races are team sports, couronne is not. And if somone cheats in Formula 1, The punishement will be quite harsch. Just take a look at what happened with the BAR team, Button and Sato, recently which got them suspended for 2 races. Unless you are not an old crippled bad-sighted man, then you have no excuse of using any helping aid of what so ever in Couronne... You kinda miss the point Sidan -  My reference to Formula 1 was solely to describe the unthinkable situation in ANY sport, that a group of players are "allowed" to cheat - and all other competitors are denied information about their cheating ways. How can any competition be considered fair under such circumstances? If it exclusively was for fun - then never mind - but many players takes Couronne very serious and it has become a major part in their lives, and they pay to get to play. Of course they have a right to be informed about flaws in the program that allow others to a better chance of winning. It is arrogance to deny them this information. Or better yet - let Rocketman prove that the ways of cheating can be stopped as Chris claims - I seriously doubt it. People wont stop being inventive because you close a door or two - they will find an open window. Cheating in this game can never be proved - now, shut up Beowulf  |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 18, 2005 1:47:01 GMT -5
how can anyone bring in Formula one or Indycar into this discussion to compare about. Those car races are team sports, couronne is not. Unless you are not a . . . bad-sighted man, then you have no excuse of using any helping aid of what so ever in Couronne... SidDan! [glow=red,2,300]How many is sitting in an Indy-Racing car or in a Formula 1 car? One[/glow] Why is it then a teamsport? Because of the pitstop crew. [glow=red,2,300]How many is playing in couronne here? One[/glow] This couronnesite would also introduce teamsport if they allowed pitstop-info like external software infos practiced in IndyCar racing and so on. Please! Click the pic Thats what been discussed here, SidDan Further! [glow=red,2,300]Kenny Brack in Indycar racing is a badsighted man[/glow]But He wares glasses or lenses against it  Scandal |
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Post by SidDan on Jun 18, 2005 14:05:37 GMT -5
Scandal... do you even know anything about Racing? And do you seriously only believe there is 1 driver and a few pitstop crews that covers it all? There are about 50 people each with very important role in this whole circus!
Compare couronne with simple kiddy kart instead if you can´t stay away from motor sport... There you only have the kart and yourself driving against your buddies. Equal karts, equal distance, equal everything and I have counted away the individual body weight so you don´t have to mention it since weight is no concern in couronne.
So don´t compare again with Kenny Bräck or any other advanced race sport... it is just wrong.
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 18, 2005 16:34:15 GMT -5
Scandal... do you even know anything about Racing? So don´t compare again with Kenny Bräck or any other advanced race sport... it is just wrong. SidDan! You probably was just a baby . . .  . . .when I knew some about motosports Look below whose autograph I got in 1977, a short time before he died in Italy, Monza, Formula 1. Please Click the pic to see the real autograph Finally: In English its Kenny Brack not Kenny Bräck
Scandal |
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Post by Chris on Jun 19, 2005 3:35:59 GMT -5
wow seems my name has been used a lot just recently!
fyi....... and without re-reading everything i have typed in this thread all i have ever tried to do is make the following points.
1: i despise cheating in anything.... if you need to cheat at it to be "good" at it then you are not good at it........ i still think couronne and any other game should be played FAIR and EQUAL.
2: i do NOT work for raketspel......raketspel is a company who created the games for and own shockplay. i "work" for shockplay as a recruiter amongst other things and have no direct ability to influence what is done other then the following........
i am what i consider to be good friends with Per and talk to him quite often, usually to annoy him with helping other peoples problems, however i have a very strong intrest in programming and whilst i am no expert i do have a workable solution to the straight shot cheats. however i also agree that rocketman just may not have the time or interest required to implement it.
however as i do regard Per to be a friend i accept that i may well have jumped to his defence and in my world that is what you do....... you defend your friends and loved ones, so i do not apologise if thats what i have done.
3: we all know that currently the cheats exsist and are active. if you think you are having a hard time at shockplay with cheats in couronne....... you should see whats happening at miniclip....... it is far far worse! however at miniclip the ability to change your name for every single game is available so you could quite easily play the same cheat 3 times or more in a row and unless you were observant of that persons stats (which are shown to you after you accept the challenge) you wouldnt know until its too late. at shockplay this frequent changing of names at will isn't possible, so just dont play them again.
i think the best workable solution for the players at shockplay is (until such a time that the cheats are "fixed") for them to be self-policing........ report to your friends who the cheats are........either send them a message or post here or at one of the many forums available ........ as it seems the reason there is such a big problem is people are playing these cheaters..... if you know who they are and dont play them they cant cheat you!
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Post by beowolf on Jun 19, 2005 13:05:18 GMT -5
Thank you Chris for addressing the issues a little closer, but you did not answer any of the questions directly. With the outmost respect, let me try to point out to you, why I feel the chain kinda broke somewhere. i still think couronne and any other game should be played FAIR and EQUAL. Couldnt agree more... Hmmm... is there any difference? Raketspel/Shockplay - but thats really not that important anyways. That is, indeed news to all of us ! No - you dont have to apologise anything - but being involved in matters as deeply as you are - and being a major influence on peoples views and perceptions by making yourself an expert on these matters, then its nice to know what is forming YOUR views and where your loyalty is. Can even worse conditions on miniclip justify anything? I think Raketspel should feel obligated on both platforms. Didnt you just say that this wouldnt happen? Many forums - available to what Chris ?? How long would a post about cheating be allowed here - or on pb20? A post saying... "Beowulf is a cheater - he is using 2 mouse cheat" - and then a little explanation of the 2 mouse cheat. It would be gone before you could say cheers. So your "best workable solution" is based on something that wont happen (rocketman fixing) and something you wont allow on the forums (posts about cheating).
So the best workable solution wont work - what else would you suggest?Most other developers have a website, informing about bugs and flaws to serve the customers. In this case, the customers are not allowed to talk about it on the forums! You say players can chose who to play from"self-policing"- rumors and hidden messages. I think it would be much better if all ways of cheating was public described in details - that would give the honest player a possibility to judge for himself - and chose who to play for himself. It would also be an incentive for Raketspel to take a closer look. Dont you think its time, in matters like this, to move the focus from Rocketmans interests to the interest of your forum-members. With your position and integrity - that would really make a difference. What would you suggest? |
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Post by SidDan on Jun 19, 2005 18:25:22 GMT -5
Finally: In English its Kenny Brack not Kenny Bräck Scandal Lol, well. Kenny is swedish and his sure name is Bräck. Not my fault you can´t type åäö. You may be older and at those early times the racing were perhaps only involving the driver and some pit crew. But nowadays it is surely more to it. But you still think there are only drivers and some pit crew that runs the whole circus This discussion has nothing to do with the main topic so I just leave it here, and I will be on a vaccation anyways |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 20, 2005 2:54:54 GMT -5
Lol, well. Kenny is swedish and his sure name is Bräck. Not my fault you can´t type åäö. . . . at those early times the racing were perhaps only involving the driver and some pit crew. But nowadays it is surely more to it. This discussion has nothing to do with the main topic so I just leave it here, and I will be on a vaccation anyways Have a great vacation SidDan! You are quite right about åäö But - This discussion has someting to do with the main topic. The reason I started this topic was me trying to make the responsible crew in here change the view concerning the use of Excel (my idea). Cause its just a harmless external software info. The shots are still done within Shockplay. That would just be the same way of handling things as they do in    But so far not in Shockplay  Scandal |
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Post by Chris on Jun 20, 2005 5:05:22 GMT -5
ok .......... i try my best to do the right thing whenever i can. i also welcome constructive criticism and debate over what i do. since my last post in this thread some very good points have been raised and those i will, when i have the time, address. however, in the meantime i have decided to debate the subject elsewhere to get more information on this and i also felt i owed it to myself to see if i was indeed thinking along the wrong lines. anyone wishing to read this debate may click HERE and are also welcome, if they wish, to join in and make a comment of their own. as i stated above i will when i have a little more information and time come back to this thread and reply to other comments recently made |
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Post by beowolf on Jun 20, 2005 5:29:03 GMT -5
I have no doubt that you do the best you can - and I will await the outcome with anticipation - and since I have made my point clear, I will refrain from further comments.
However, on a second note - since you have moved the discussion elsewhere (pb20), wouldnt it only be natural to give those members knowledge about what is said here?
In my opinion, that would keep the "talk on track" so to speak, and a more nuanced view on the issue.
Thanks
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Post by Chris on Jun 20, 2005 6:00:51 GMT -5
noted and done
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Post by SelinaKyle on Jun 21, 2005 13:06:58 GMT -5
To a point you are right. But going out of the Shockplay window to shoot your shots is considered unfair play...the game is in the shockplay window, so stay in that window, and only use the keyboard for typing. I'm sick of these people using mousekeys all the time..you gain no skill whatsoever, and i hope rocketman figures out a way to disable this noobish feature. i play as fair as can be, and i know many others that do too, but when you play a cheater in league, that gets to my last nerves knowing he got to that high division cheating the whole way up...if that feature is disabled, then maybe shockplay can make room for some TRUE league players, and less people will resign. But that's just my opinion.... I am with Strux on this one 100%. Every week I see people advance in the league ONLY BECAUSE THEY CHEAT THEIR STRAIGHT SHOTS! It ruins the experience for me and I'm sure for other people who realize it as well. There was a time when I was against Rocketman implementing the random angle because I thought it made the game too hard. However, I never thought that the cheating would get SOOOOO bad as it is now. I never thought that this many people would go to so much effort to try to find a cheat in order to get ahead. I have had a complete change of heart of the subject and would LOVE it if Rocketman re-implemented the random angle. [glow=red,2,300]I think Rocketman needs to take a break from Juggling  and FIX THE CHEAT!  [/glow] |
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Post by scandalplayer on Jun 21, 2005 15:58:27 GMT -5
Every week I see people advance in the league ONLY BECAUSE THEY CHEAT THEIR STRAIGHT SHOTS! It ruins the experience for me and I'm sure for other people who realize it as well. There was a time when I was against Rocketman implementing the random angle because I thought it made the game too hard. I have had a complete change of heart of the subject and would LOVE it if Rocketman re-implemented the random angle. (S)Celina! Everyone seem to miss the point here. Even if Rm re-implented the random angle it wouldnt get rid of those most severe cheats. There are straight shots done because of the computers themselves. There are programs within some laptop computers (IBM) - making staight shots possible. When I reached the Elitelegue for the first time some months ago - I had a real hard time the second week. There were those shots no "re-implented the random angle" could cure. I was really confused about this. Then I saw Hektors thoughts in a forum - He mentioned those straight shots - I had never heard about it them before. Then I started to get into what it was about. Of course you get interested in this (Watch my previous posts here!) - I mean - how beeing able protecting yourself against all this. You simply have to learn yourself as noone else teaches you. For instance: Please look at one of this weeks (21th of June) elite leagues members [glow=red,2,300]presentation[/glow]  These days I think just like this "Elitefriend" of mine [glow=red,2,300]Further:[/glow] This friend just told me the new STAR in Elitediv. isnt him playing - Its ...... Well if I told you - You wouldnt believe me!!! Scandal |
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